An Interview With gladson dungdung

Conducted by Vandana Singh. Translated into English by Rajender Negi.

For the benefit of our readers, tell us about your childhood experience of village life. How was the village atmosphere, its culture, standard of living and natural environment?

The name of our village is Latthakhamhan. The village is situated in Simdega district of the state of Jharkhand amidst dense forest. Village has seven tolaas (settlements). Surrounded by forests, the name of the village is also associated with hunting. It is said that one night our ancestors went for hunting in the nearby forest with their meal of mandua lattha (finger millets), which is a type of a laddu (millet ball) made up of millet flour and dried millet flowers and is very delicious and nutritious. When they reached the forest, they hung their bag of food on a branch of a tree and went about hunting. Around midnight, they felt hungry and gathered under the tree to gobble food. They were astonished to see that their mandua lattha had turned into a massive stone boulder. Tormented by hunger pangs, they tried to scrape that stone ball and eat it. Even today that rock is there with scratch marks on it. Thus they named their village Latthakhamhan, which means hanging mandua lattha. This village was full of adivasiyat (culture of indigenous people).

In those days, the spirit of co-existence was exemplary. This was basically the village of Khadiya Adivasis but later Munda, Cheekbadai, Lohra and Gond communities also settled here, who live here despite their distinct socio-cultural and religious traditions. All the families in the village had their houses built with mud, slates and wood, where they lived with their cows, buffaloes, goats, hens, pigs, dogs and cats. In the nearby jungle, there lived tigers, bears, jackals, foxes, rabbits and many more wild animals. Not only this, there were also abodes of countless birds on trees and in the bushes of the village. In addition, there were thousands of species of insects and flies there. If you ask me, for us the jungle truly was a thriving habitat for countless birds, animals and other living organisms. It was, in the truest sense, a magnificent garden of co-existence. Every colour of life was present there.

For us, the jungle was wonderful. We could not imagine life without a jungle. We had a mutual relationship with the jungle. There was a Van Suraksha Samiti (Forest Protection Committee) in the village, which had its own rules and regulations. For making a house, wedding ceremonies, social functions and for any other needs, it was necessary to take permission from the committee for cutting a tree. There were rules for cutting a tree. Only the branches of a tree were allowed to be cut. A tree was allowed to be cut from its trunk only when there was extreme need. Collection of fire wood was permitted once a week. Every week, on Fridays, villagers and some outside people ventured into the jungle in groups to pick fallen branches. As per the rules of the committee, everyday two persons guarded the forest. It was mandatory for every family to spare a person once a week for guard duty. It was a punishable offence to be caught cutting a tree or fetching wood, which invited punishment in the Gram Sabha (Village Council) meeting. Apart from protecting the forest, villagers also planted saplings. As a result, the village has many trees like mango, guava, jackfruit, jaamun (black berry), tamarind, etc.

Village culture was excellent, the basis of which lay in collectivity. Village life meant living together. This was the culture here. Living in groups, making houses, cultivating fields, going to jungle and markets, sharing food and remembering Gods together was the way of life. Grief and happiness were for one and sundry alike. Individualism had no place here. The glimpse of wonderful village culture was best reflected in collective dance.

Every Saturday we assembled in the village ground with musical instruments like dholak and maander (barrel shaped tom-toms) after dinner. Everybody from the village from elderly to the young ones used to be in the grounds. There were no restrictions of age or gender. Everyone danced on drum beats and sang together. Enthusiasm and thrill was for anybody to see. It was no less a view from some fantastic film scene. Dancing and singing went on till midnight.

The economy here was dependent on forest produce. Every family had cultivable land, which their ancestors had carved out by clearing and tending the barren forest land. Here originally the crop of paddy, millet, urad, kurthi, sarguja was grown, which was dependent on rain water. The Adivasi way of life was driven by basic needs. It was clearly visible here. Villagers gathered only the needful from the jungle, such as kandmool (root vegetables), variety of fruits, kareel, mushroom, putu, firewood, etc. and left the rest for others and animals. Sharing of forest produce, vegetables and grains was a common practice. There was no place for the greedy in the village. In the ethos laid by their ancestors, they simply did not fit in.

In providing stability to the family’s economy, children had a big role to play. We got up early in the morning and performed a variety of tasks like ploughing fields, tending paddy crop, taking cattle for grazing, picking mahua and doing other household chores. Two hours later we got ready for school. After bathing and having a breakfast of marh-bhaat (Rice with rice water) we set out for school, which was about two kilometres away. This distance increased manifold when we reached High school level. On the unpaved, uneven road we cycled around 20 kilometres to reach the school. The food got digested as soon as we arrived in the school. Then again, a few hours later, we rode another 20 kilometre on an empty stomach to reach home. After reaching home we ate leftovers and again worked for 2-3 hours. On off days in school, we toiled from morning till late in the evening. It was fun grazing cattle in the jungle. We used to take cows, bulls, and goats to jungle for grazing. While in the jungle, we used to eat a variety of fruits and sing to tunes of flutes. Thus, the day got spent.

Villagers understood environment. The main reason behind protecting forests and planting new trees was this deep understanding of forests. Nobody used chemical fertilisers. The fact that urea and DAP fertilisers make the fields barren was known to all. People used only cow dung as fertiliser. Since everybody had cattle, there was no dearth of it. Schools taught about environment but no teacher ever asked for the need to protect forests or plant trees. We learnt text book material about environment only to pass examinations. Planting trees and protecting forests we learnt from our parents. My father was one of the pillars of the Forest Protection Committee. He roped several fruit yielding plants, which have now become big and bear fruits.

Perhaps our ancestors learnt equality from nature. There was no discrimination of any kind prevalent in the village. Quite a few families were well off in the village. The reason for this might be a government job of a family member and plenty of land but they never discriminated against poor families. Ploughing in the fields, roping, cutting and carrying paddy, constructing a house or any other work they used to do together. Everybody participated in traditional practices like panacha and madayit. Though, they could easily get away by hiring others on their behalf. Everyone participated in weddings of poor people; and, the rich too invited everyone. Likewise, there was no discrimination between a girl or a boy child. Parents valued them equally. We were four — two brothers and two sisters. My father bought a bicycle for my sister first because she was the eldest sibling in the family and had started going to school which was in the city. Later each one of us got a bicycle.

What changes have come about in your village, say, in people’s ways of living and the changes in the lives of other living organisms in the jungles? What has been the impact of climate change? What according to you can be the definition of adivasiyat in this context?

Everything has changed now. My village is now linked to states like Delhi, Punjab, Haryana, Maharashtra and Gujarat. Village girls work as domestic workers in Delhi and Mumbai. Similarly, village boys go to these states to work in fields as agriculture labourers as well as in factories as workers. When they return home they bring with them the cultures and values of theses places with them. The notion of collectivity has now transformed into individualistic life styles. Consumerism, capitalist economy, urbanisation, modern technology, etc. have consumed the village.

If I state honestly, we are being forced to change. Earlier our ancestors were called uncivilised, wild, demon, savage, etc. Then they were called uneducated, yokel, illiterate, lowly, backward and so on. Britishers tried to make us civilised. In the name of development, national interest and public interest, we were constantly displaced from our land, area and natural resources. Then under the garb of bringing us in the mainstream, the Indian government has destroyed the Adivasi world in the the last seven decades.

Adivasi society has been shown to look like a pile of garbage. As a result, Adivasi people people in their effort to look civilised, to be part of the mainstream and be called cultured and developed kept on forgetting their identity, language, culture, rituals, traditions, in short, their adivasiyat. Today, we understand that this was done to us as part of a conspiracy so that we lose our original Adivasi identity.

The fundamental question before us today is that by imbibing modern education and individual-centric life style of non-Adivasis, by immersing ourselves in consumerism, by embracing capitalist economy, by becoming part of urban culture, by travelling in modern vehicles and by lapping up modern technology, will we, in the times to come, be able to retain our identity as Adivasis?

Living organisms, birds and animals, and variety of insects, thankfully, still exist in our area. Tigers have vanished, but wild boars are increasing in number rapidly and thriving. People don’t go on hunting like before and because of this boars destroy crops.

Seeing the impact of climate change is very sad, especially in the lives of people who once coexisted with nature. This destruction of the earth is happening because of massive levels of industrialisation, mining and urbanisation world over in order to satiate the greed of the so-called civilised, educated and developed people. Today, climate change is not only finishing off their livelihood resources but also rendering them dependent on government schemes, doing wage labour and domestic work in other people’s houses, which is adversely impacting their autonomy, self-reliance and dignity.

Even today 90 per cent of Adivasis live in villages. Their main livelihood is dependent on  agriculture and forest produce. With climate change, weather patterns are going haywire, and forest produce and crops are getting affected badly. When I was a child, mahua flowers ripened and fell to the ground in February, which was the sign of the summers approaching in right time. But today because of climate change mahua flowers have declined. Mahua flowers used to take care of expenditure of a family for six months. Likewise forest produce has also diminished. 

Similar is the situation with agriculture. Adivasi areas are primarily dependent on rains but climate change has affected even that badly. Earlier monsoons usually arrived in the first week of June. The period between 10 July and 15 August was the most ideal time for paddy planting. Now, planting begins in the month of August because of which pests affect the crop. Other than this, the erratic rainfall destroys the standing crop, which has directly impacted the tribal economy. Climate change has played havoc in the world of Adivasis. Not being able to sustain themselves on agriculture and forest produce, they are moving out of villages. Taking advantage of this situation, touts are getting indulged in the trafficking of Adivasi girls.

Adivasi life philosophy, which Marang Gomke Jaspal Singh Munda in his ‘Adivasiyat’ and Dr. Ramdayal Munda have named Adi-darshan is full of world’s best ideas, thoughts and values. Just as Marxism, Gandhism, Ambedkarism, Maoism and Brahmanism represent a specific ideology, thinking or life’s philosophy, the adivasiyat is the harbinger of Adivasi wisdom, thinking, and  ideology.

Adivasiyat is originally based on the laws of nature. The fundamental basis of Adivasi society is a casteless, classless and discrimination-less society. This is based on the principle of co-existence with nature, concept of collectivity, equality, autonomy, self-reliance, mutual cooperation, dignity, justice, honesty, simplicity, fraternity, fearlessness, tolerance and struggle. It also teaches the importance of need-based economy, consent-based governance, community and nature centric development, time-conducive change and respecting every creature’s rights in the food-chain.

You have very poignantly described the current challenges before Adivasis. In the face of these daunting challenges, where do you get the strength to continue fighting?

This I have got as a legacy. My grandpa was a teacher and was a known social activist in the field. My father treaded in his footsteps. Our land was submerged due to construction of a dam, which made his financial conditions very grim. Despite this he continued with his social activism till the end. It was because of this activism both my parents were killed together. I was about 12 years old then. My father used to say that we should stand by the people under any circumstances. After the brutal murder of my parents, I had to struggle a lot to earn my livelihood and education. After attaining a certain status I got many job offers in cities but my father’s inspiration made me return to Jharkhand.  Meanwhile, I worked for a funding agency for two years to improve my financial condition. But when I wrote  an article on the issue of displacement against TATAs and Mittals, questions were raised and I had to resign. Since then, I chose the path of struggle for ever. Whenever I feel disintegrated from within I read books and articles written by me, as well books and articles written by other about people’s struggles. In addition, to keep myself strong, I meditate.

What inspiration do you draw from Adivasi resistance and struggles? Are you also inspired from indigenous people’s struggles in other parts of the world?

For the last 250 years, Indian Adivasis are struggling for ownership rights of their land, area and natural resources. Their fight is not only for their own survival but also to save the earth and life on it. For sure, the indigenous people all over the world are struggling to save their land, area and natural resources. All these struggles are inspiring. The struggle against Adani’s proposed coal mining in Australia’s Queensland had greatly inspired me. Their strategy was extraordinary. They were fighting so effectively that the banks there refused to provide loans. But Gautam Adani, through his friend prime minister Narendra Modi, compelled the poor to open bank accounts in the name of Jandhan Yojna and subsequently by currency demonetisation forced them to deposit their savings in those banks and secured the loan of Rs 6,200 crores from the State Bank of India for himself. But people’s struggle had stalled the project. Similarly, I met the indigenous displaced people of a power plant near Germany-Poland border. They were fighting to save their language. I met a lot of people from the Philippines in Thailand and Germany. They were fighting against oil companies. Many lost their lives. Activists were branded as terrorists by the government. I met people from Ghana in England. They were fighting to save their river. But what rattled me the most was the story of the “Man of Hole” who fought for 22 years but the world never got to know his name. I feel that to fight the government-capitalist nexus we have to toil, remaining neutral like that man.

We know that mainstream industrial culture is destroying the world. Do you think that it is possible to open up the minds and hearts of people? What can the people from mainstream society, who are keen to know about Adivasi culture, do to support its struggles?

Individual-centric life style, capitalist economy, consumerism, urbanisation and modern technology, which are basically the capitalism’s offerings, have today captured the minds of people. I call this mental slavery. When you become a slave to some ideology it becomes impossible to break free of it. In the present times the world over, including India, the rightwing ideology is on a rampage and yet people are following it.

But nature is most powerful. I believe, capitalism, or for that matter, any other ideology, will not be able to stand before it. Nature has begun doing its work. Global warming, global cooling is the living example of this. When the destruction will increase, people will have to change their ways. People are already discussing this.

Today there is a need to spread adivasiyat. When we will link it with the climate change and say that it is the only way forward to save the world, people will begin to think. But if we only discuss Adivasi issues, the results are not likely to be that good, as Adivasis have been established as anti-development elements. The world has to be told the day Adivasis relinquish the fight for jal-jungle-zameen (water-forest-land), it will be the beginning of the end of the world. Therefore, the non-Adivasis who want to associate with Adivasi struggles, can join them ideologically, physically and financially. Adivasi movements have to be made a movement to save the earth and life on it.

In United States of America, indigenous people have returned to their habitats to restore nature. There is not enough awareness in India about this possibility. Even in the US, this is a small tendency. But more and more people are getting aware of it. Do you think to increase such awareness, there is a need to change our education policy and how can it be done?

I understand that to change people’s mindset not only the education policy needs to be changed but also the need to write good books. Films and serials should be made with the idea of imparting right kind of perspectives. The environment education that we are given is not practical. On the one hand we are taught about planting trees and protecting forests. On the other, Adivasis, living with plants and trees are projected as savages, uncivilised and half humans and also subjected to racial discrimination and violence. Adivasis are looked down upon for living with nature. A result of which, Adivasis living and educated in cities have alienated from forests, wildlife and their own community. Earlier only non Adivasis used to despise Adivasis but today city dweller Adivasis despise their own people and community. They are constantly moving away from their Adivasi identity, language, culture, and age-old traditions. This is not only detrimental to Adivasi existence but also to forests and wildlife.

It is difficult to imagine a better future. Yet dreams have always inspired people to fight against today’s destructive structures. Can you tell us some dream of yours, assuming it to be some fantastic story, which the generation next can perhaps read in future?

Given a chance, I would like to return to my village, which I witnessed in my childhood. Although there is no river near my village but there are plenty of water sources. There are many villages in our area where river passes through.

I would like to envisage a village which is surrounded by jungles and mountains and where a river flows; a village where there are numerous water sources; a village where there are small houses, a school, a community health centre, potable water, electricity and a road; a village with small market close by where people could buy their necessities; a village where economy is based on agriculture, forest produce, animal husbandry, fishery, gardening, etc.; and, a village where the use of polluting technology, means of transport and firewood is minimal. This dream village of  my imagination would be completely free of plastic, chemical fertiliser and pesticide. Such a village would be based on the principle of co-existence where humans, animals, birds, forests, mountains, marine life, variety of plants and trees as well as rivers and nalas would be there.